Evolution of a Language

Language expert and music lover Paul Andrew joins host Leela Gilday to share stories and music of growing up Dene, and how he has helped advance the language by creating new words as our world evolves. 

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Multiple Speakers [00:00:00] [cheerful electronic music] Sim gigyat, Sigidim Haanak’, K’ubawilxsihlxw. Oki, wishing you good life. Kuei! Kuei! Yo! Wik’sas. Dánet'e, negha dágǫ́ht’e.

Announcer [00:00:14] This is Words and Culture, a series on Indigenous languages funded by SiriusXM through the Community Radio Fund of Canada and distributed by Native Voice One, The Native American Radio Network. [music fades out]

Leela Gilday [00:00:30] Dánet'e. Màhsi. Sine sezi Leela Gilday siridi. Màhsi gachu nanainda!

When I was a young girl, awakening to the political realities of the north, I learned about the Berger Inquiry. I didn’t really understand anything about aboriginal title, resource extraction, or environmental impacts. All I knew was that our Chiefs and Elders were speaking from our various territories in a unified voice to defeat a multinational corporation from putting a pipeline through our sacred Dënéndeh.

I came to know one of those powerful voices very closely throughout my musical life, and on my radio and television. Paul Andrew was the Chief of Tulı́t’a at age 22, and went on to spend most of his adult life advocating for cultural reclamation and wellness, and striving to tell our Dene stories through the CBC.

I’ve also collaborated musically with him. He is a huge language advocate. So I was very excited to interview him for this show, but was also a little nervous and hoping I could bring out more than just the reporter in him. After all, he was a long time journalist with the public broadcaster in the north.

I asked him to introduce himself.

Paul Andrew [00:01:46] (introduces self in Sahtúot’ı̨nę Yatı̨́)

My name is Paul Andrew and, in my Sahtúot’ı̨nę language, Ehke Naneneis. My dad named me. I am originally from Tulı́t’a, used to be called Fort Norman, and I grew up on the land and I spent seven years in residential schools. I live in Yellowknife now.

Leela Gilday [00:02:09] When did you first speak English?

Paul Andrew [00:02:12] I would say, you know, I knew a few words here and there, mostly through cowboy shows. And then–

Leela Gilday [00:02:18] (laughs) Through cowboy shows?

Paul Andrew [00:02:19] Yeah. (laughs) So I knew a few English words, but essentially I couldn't. When I went to school in Inuvik when – I think I was 14, I didn't even know what a gym was. Somebody would say, “Go to – let's go to the gym.”

“Where is that?”

You know, “Let’s go to study hall, go to the lavatory.” I didn't even know what those words. So I, essentially, I may have known a few words here and there, but to say I speak English was – won't be until about 14 or 15? But prior to that, everything was in the languages.

Leela Gilday [00:02:57] Can you share a little bit about how you grew up on the land and your family?

Paul Andrew [00:03:01] When you look back, that appears even more beautiful than it actually was. Because when you're young, we have this impression of perfect parents, perfect Elders, you know? And that's how I felt about it. You'd wake up early in the morning, you just hear somebody say, “(singing) Hey-yah. Eh-yah-eh-yay.”

And I knew it was early in the morning, and you'd hear the Elders, older people, doing something out there. Whether it was chopping wood or whatever, but they were singing.

And I have never ever found anything like that all my life. 

And that sort of established your day for you. So no matter how bad it might get, it's still positive. Because of that wonderful song. And what the Elders say is that people who sing those songs are happy for the land, happy for their animals, happy for the environment. 

And that's how I grew up. With people who tried to be really happy.

You know, so sometimes we might have not enough food, but nobody worried. They knew that there was gonna be provided. They didn't worry about kids running or getting lost in the bush. You know, they didn't say, “Don't touch the hot stove.” They actually encourage you to touch the hot stove so that you'll never ever do it again. If you're smart enough.

You know, so that's the kind of – that's a lot of positivity. It's amazing how positive the Elders were. I knew they had their own problems now. When you look back, you can see, but it was always positive, always encouraging each other, always a hand on.

You know, saying to people, “You're never alone. You won't want it alone.” That's so they would put their hand on you.

And so I think music, drum dances, hand games, a lot of really happy people. Hardworking, independent, happy people. That's how I would describe it.

Leela Gilday [00:05:12] Mm. Tell us a little bit about, if you could, share a little about Ets’ula.

Paul Andrew [00:05:19] In our language, Ets’ula, is essentially, in English they call it love songs, but it's more than that. It's much more than that.

That's probably the closest description to it, but I would say it is what connects you to the environment, connects you to people. And nothing can connect you more beautiful than music. And it goes right to the heart. It goes right to the basis of who you are. So that connection happens because we're all connected to the environment.

So they know that that's what they try to do is get in touch with that. [“Etsula” by Paul Andrew starts playing] And they also want you to sing.

I grew up maybe in a camp of maybe 25, 30 people. I guarantee you each and every one of them had a song. [song fades out]

They wouldn't get up in front of people and sing, but if they're getting wood, you can hear them sing. You're getting water, they're singing. You know, they were taking care of babies.

In the old days, they had swings, huh? And that's what they would do. (singing) And they would get the baby to go to sleep. Those kind of things.

So it's much more than just songs as far as I'm concerned. It's what connects us. It's really that really deep-rooted connection, not only to the land, but with each other.

And to this day, I find when people sing the songs, you know, I hear it on the radio. I think about my mom. I always knew my mom was somewhere around because she always sang. And there was always that safety that mum is around somewhere. I don't see her, but I can hear her sing. You know, and for me, that's what Ets’ula it's all about.

Leela Gilday [00:07:11] Mm. That's really beautiful. Because I think if you come at it from the outside, what you'll hear about Ets’ula is, like, oh, at gatherings or whatever, people have Ets’ula competition and it's all about laughing. Like everybody's, “It's like a love song. Oh, unrequited love and…”

But I've always noticed that whenever somebody is singing a real Ets’ula that's not, like, to make people laugh or whatever. I mean it has that joy but also it hits you like, “Oh! It's so good.” Like, you just sang a tiny bit and I just teared up a little bit. (laughs) So that's really beautiful. Thanks for sharing that.

Paul Andrew [00:07:55] It's like I say – like I said, I’ve – I grew up with it and I always look for it. [“Your Cheatin’ Heart” by Hank Williams starts playing] And so I get drawn to people who sing basically, almost whatever it is.

And in those old days, Hank Williams, George Jones, Buck Owens. They were the big ones. I mean, you guys are probably too young to remember them (Leela laughs) but they were the biggest ones in English. 

But, you know, as soon as people get on the land, they start singing those songs. And essentially the short form end is that people who are happy, people who are happy for the land, are the ones that sing it the most. [song fades out]

Leela Gilday [00:08:33] Mm. Can you share a little bit about your language journey with Sahtúot’ı̨nę? Was there a time where you didn't speak it in your life?

Paul Andrew [00:08:44] You know, when I came back from residential schools, and this is one of the common experience of a lot of people. Although we still retain some of the languages, we lost a lot it.

So some of people in the community were saying, “You're not even Dene anymore. You can't even speak the language. You can’t – probably even – can't even cut down a tree.” You know, and these are our own people saying that to us. So that made it tougher, but what also made it strong was that deep-rooted connection that language creates in the first place.

That connection between parents, especially with mom, because – and that will never go away because it was always in the languages.

So I came back to school, she started teaching us again. There was that period of time when it was really tough to be Dene because yes, you understood, but nobody was really helping you. But my parents did, my parents were both unilingual and now I can see their expertise in the language.

And so they taught me to get back into there.

And then the thing that they also said is, “Go out on the land.” So when you do something like getting out on the camp, everybody speaks the language. That – so you've got no choice, total immersion.

And then, of course, I started working with CBC in the languages, and one of the things that I really discovered was the Elders. How much they depended on that.

They would call me or I would see them on the streets and they would say, “Thank you for telling us that. Thank you. You know, we heard something in English, but we're not sure. But because you interpret it, we now know what they're talking about, so thank you.”

And it's amazing how many of the Elders would stop. You know, when I was on television, one of the guys from Fort Good Hope, he said, “You know, we'd start playing card games about five o'clock. At six o' clock, we stop so we can watch your show.”

Leela Gilday [00:10:49 (laughs) That's awesome.

Paul Andrew [00:10:52] “And then when the show is over at 5:30, we’d play cards again,” he said. And he said, “Now if you could just do that to bingo, we'd be okay.” (both laugh)

Leela Gilday [00:11:03] (narrating) As our world changes, we create and become more dependent on technology. Our languages change too. In English, the word iPhone didn’t exist before it was invented, so a new word has to be created for it. It’s the same in the Dene language. We have to create new words as well.

Paul, as a broadcaster and connector of our people across the north, has been at the forefront of that movement. I asked him for some examples of new words that had to be created based on technology.

Paul Andrew [00:11:35] For a long time, we didn't have computers, for example. And so what – how do you talk about computers on radio? You know, and somebody said, “What about, you know, what does a computer do?” So we talk about what the computer would do. And then they said, “So basically, does it think on its own? So let's call it that, you know?” Satsǫ́né hálae náadıts’ewe. You know? (laughs)

So that's basically the – some of the things that has come with it. And, you know, a phone. They would talk about bet’á łéht’é gots’ede. You know, something that we talk to each other with.

Leela Gilday [00:12:18] Mm.

Paul Andrew [00:12:19] Yeah, in the old days, plane. Elágenet’a. Because in the old days they had floats, and they landed on the lakes or the river.

Leela Gilday [00:12:30] (whispers) Elá.

Paul Andrew [00:12:31] So, “Elá,” is, “Boat,” and, “Genet’a,” is, “Flies.” A boat that flies. So they would look at what that particular technology would do, and they'd interpret that too.

Leela Gilday [00:12:46] Elágenet’a.

Paul Andrew [00:12:48] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:12:49] Okay. Cool. (laughs)

Paul Andrew [00:12:50] I know, yes. Yeah. It's amazing.

Leela Gilday [00:12:54] What do you see for the future of our Dene languages?

Paul Andrew [00:12:57] I see young people, they're different from us. You know, we didn't know a lot about the language. They're stronger in two cultures than we were. Maybe we were better on the land, maybe we were better with the languages, but they know something about that land. They know something about that language.

They have that advantage that we didn't have.

So one of the things that we, as older people, the keeper of the languages, what we have to do is we have to do everything we can to make sure that we pass on what we know. You know, because if we don't, people in my generation, once we go, that language is gonna fall off quite a bit.

But one of things, you know, I mean, for example, Leela, I – not only do I admire the music and the stuff that you do, one of the big prides that I've had, and I've never told you this, was seeing you tan a hide in Délı̨nę, you know? And I remember looking at and thinking, how many Juno Award winners do that? (Leela laughs)

See, that's what I mean–

Leela Gilday [00:14:09] Máhsi.

Paul Andrew [00:14:10] –that people nowadays are doing things, you know? And that's the big thing.

And I think a lot of the younger people want to learn. And so one of the things that we have to do as the Elders is, “How do we help them? How do we do that?” So if we continue to do that, then I think that the language will come back. It's not going to be the same anymore.

But I think one of these days, we're gonna convince that our leaders don't speak English. You speak your own language. If they need interpreters, make sure they hire interpreters to interpret for you.

Leela Gilday [00:14:47] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:14:48] I would tell our Elders and our leaders to speak the language. You know, because to me, like I said, I try to say is that, “Language is where the pride is.”

Language is everything. I always wonder, “What is it like for an Elder to go to the hospitals?” You know, where there's no language? You know, I just – would be really scary it’d be like–

Leela Gilday [00:15:13] (whispers) Scary.

Paul Andrew [00:15:14] –you know, having an emergency in China, in a remote place in China–

Leela Gilday [00:15:18] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:15:19] –and you don't know what's going on.

Leela Gilday [00:15:21] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:15:22] One of the things that we got to do is we gotta – anything to do with social problems, economic problems, like any kind of issues can, we can do better once we reclaim that pride.

Leela Gilday [00:15:34] (narrating) As I continue my language journey, I really like to challenge myself. So I asked Paul if he could share a short story in the language to see how much I could understand. And he graciously agreed. But we don’t speak the same dialect, so here it is.

Paul Andrew [00:15:52] (tells story in Sahtúot’ı̨nę Yatı̨́)

So let me stop there and see if–

Leela Gilday [00:16:39] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:16:39] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:16:40] So–

Paul Andrew [00:16:41] I realize, also that this is – yeah, Sahtúot’ı̨nę–

Leela Gilday [00:16:44] Sahtúot’ı̨nę.

Paul Andrew [00:16:44] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:16:45] So I heard, “Dene łǝ́w.” “Lots of people gathering.” I heard “Yát’a.” “The sky.” Something about things being good, “Nezǫ.” That's about what I understood. (laughs)

Paul Andrew [00:16:59] Yeah. And that's fine. You know, one of the things that I think we got to do as older people is that we've got to slow down.

Leela Gilday [00:17:06] (laughs) Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:17:07] You know? Because, well, that's one of the things that–

Leela Gilday [00:17:08] Well, my language comprehension is very basic, so–

Paul Andrew [00:17:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:17:12] –unless you're talking about, like, “Oh, kare gonezǫ.” Or like, “Łǝ́ǝ, nakǝ, tai, dįį, sǫlái.” (laughs)

Paul Andrew [00:17:19] Yeah, yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:17:20] Like, it's hard. I'm slowly expanding my language comprehension, but words like, “Areyǫné,” or “Ehjǫ.” Like, I understand, like, everyone. There's some overarching, like, concepts that I get in – that are pretty, like, common amongst the dialects. So what were you saying?

Paul Andrew [00:17:42] Well, basically what I’m saying, in the old days, you know, when we talk to each other, when Elders are teaching, there might be 10, 15 people around, but they would be teaching one person.

Leela Gilday [00:17:52] Ah, okay.

Paul Andrew [00:17:53] One person only. You converse only with one person. And everybody else's job is to listen.

Leela Gilday [00:17:59] Okay.

Paul Andrew [00:18:00] That's it. And so that they are practicing their listening skills.

Leela Gilday [00:18:05] Okay.

Paul Andrew [00:18:06] And that's what their job is, to do that. Yours – but too, but you are the person that the main – we're turning the story over to.

Leela Gilday [00:18:15] Mm.

Paul Andrew [00:18:16] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:18:17] Oh, that's beautiful, yeah. Yeah, I didn't get it. (laughs)

Paul Andrew [00:18:20] Yeah, that’s fine.

Leela Gilday [00:18:21] But I did hear it – I did hear like, “A lot of people.”

Paul Andrew [00:18:23] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:18:24] “Dene łǝ́w.”

Paul Andrew [00:18:25] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:18:26] I understand that.

Paul Andrew [00:18:27] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:18:28] But one on one. How would you say – how did you say that? One on one? That the story goes to one person?

Paul Andrew [00:18:34] Dene łǝ́w łégúde.

Leela Gilday [00:18:37] Dene łǝ́w łégúde.

Paul Andrew [00:18:38] Yeah. One person talking to each other.

Leela Gilday [00:18:40] Okay.

Paul Andrew [00:18:41] Yeah.

Leela Gilday [00:18:42] (whispers) Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:18:43] And one of the things that really becomes in those kind of teachings, for example, is that, you know, they always, like, in English, they talk about the lowest denominator.

Leela Gilday [00:18:55] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:18:55] You know, so the person that struggles the most is the one that they teach. That’s – they try to reach the most. For the others, it might be revisiting old lessons, but it just means you need it.

Leela Gilday [00:19:08] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:19:09] You need old lessons again.

Leela Gilday [00:19:10] Yeah, we all do. Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:19:11] So that's what they try to do so that they bring up the whole community as opposed to just making the better ones better.

Leela Gilday [00:19:20] Yeah. Máhsi cho for that, for taking me through. (laughs) I can't believe I just did that to myself on on air, but–

Paul Andrew [00:19:32] No, you did really well.

Leela Gilday [00:19:34] I just – I try.

Paul Andrew [00:19:35] See, one of the things that I think we need to do is that, yeah, we need to put ourselves on the line. You know, that's the only way it could work.

Leela Gilday [00:19:45] Mmhm.

Paul Andrew [00:19:46] You know, we need to take that chance. Like you say, maybe not everybody's happy with your hide.

Leela Gilday [00:19:53] Mmhm.

Paul Andrew [00:19:54] So what? You know? So what – that's, it's not to make people happy.

Leela Gilday [00:19:58] Mmhm.

Paul Andrew [00:19:59] It's, it's for you.

Leela Gilday [00:19:59] Mmhm.

Paul Andrew [00:19:59] And so I think that's that thing that I was so important about. Teaching it in the young people. And when I was a young kid, I said, “You know, I'm not a good hunter as my brothers, but that never ever stopped me from going out on the land.”

And they would never ever go out on land without me. They might not let me shoot because you're a poor shot. (both laugh) You know, but they find places for you.

Leela Gilday [00:20:29] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:20:30] And they include you.

Leela Gilday [00:20:31] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:20:32] So yeah, I think that's the thing that – and I would really encourage young people to continue to really push that language and push the Elders so that they can teach you.

One of the things that I ask young people, because then I want them to think about, “What does it mean if I say I'm a Sahtúot’ı̨nę? What does that mean? How does that differentiate you from Gwich'in, or, ‘Ted-leh-jeh,’ or Sahtúgot’įné, or, ‘Ah-pah-woh-tin?’ What's the difference?” So that's part of the thing that they've got to think about.

So that, I think, becomes really important is that when I say, “I'm Sahtúot’ı̨nę.”

And what – there's three or four things that differentiates me from other people. One is songs. We have different songs from other people. You go to Délı̨nę, they'll have different songs. The stories are different. Yamozha is like, in Christianity, Jesus coming down. Yamozha is very similar to that, but it differs from all the different communities.

So it's those kinds of things that I want them to identify and say, “This is what makes us. We're Dene, but this is what makes us different from each other.”

What really is important, also, is that you found your genealogy. You go back to where, way back where you come from, you know? Leela and I, we might be related, you know? And I wouldn't be surprised–

Leela Gilday [00:22:07] Yeah.

Paul Andrew [00:22:08] –because of the really close relationship between Tulít’a and Délı̨nę. In the past, they were almost like one big family. They just covered a big different area, so. But I really feel good about the young people.

You know, I see them paddling out on the land. I see them having on the land camps. And they're writing stories. They're challenging each other. You know, and I'm really proud of them, you know, so. We as older people have to find a way to reclaim our role in the old days as teachers. So that we can be a big part of their lives.

Leela Gilday [00:22:49] (narrating) Earlier in this episode, we heard Paul singing his song, “Etsula.” A love song essentially. But Paul and I also collaborated on a song called, “Rise,” along with Lawrence Nayally, Catherine Lafferty and the former premier of the Northwest Territories, Stephen Kakfwi.

We created a stage show, mural painting, and a recording of 11 original songs on the topic of healing from colonialism. Made courtesy of the Canada Council, it was during the sesquicentennial exploration of Reconciliation through the arts. We titled the project, “Gho-bah/Gombaa.” [“Rise” fades in]

Which means, “First light of dawn after the long winter,” or “The first sign of spring.” It is a word that describes hope, new life, and resilience.

Song removed from streaming.

Leela Gilday [00:26:55] (narrating) It was so wonderful welcoming Paul Andrew back into my home. He is truly one of our most respected and cherished junior Elders and I am always honoured to spend time with him.

If you want to hear more episodes of Words and Culture, check out our website at wordsandculture.ca or wherever you get your favourite podcasts.

Sine sezi Leela Gilday siridi. Máhsi cho. Ts’eri máhsi for listening.

Announcer [00:27:25] [cheerful electronic music] Words and Culture is made possible with funding from SiriusXM, through the Community Radio Fund of Canada. It is distributed through Native Voice One, The Native American Radio Network. Words and Culture is produced by Kim Wheeler. Kaylen Belair is our audio engineer and editor.

Multiple Speakers [00:27:44] Hamiyaa. Yammi! K’achu naohdá nǫ́. Ha̱lakas'la. Kitakitamaatsinyo’pau, we’ll see you later. [music fades out]

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